I’m Reverend Jide Macaulay. I’m the founder of House of Rainbow, an organisation that supports black lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer people of African/Caribbean descent. I’m also a priest in the Church of England and I’m also someone living with HIV for the past eighteen years. So, a lot of my work also includes supporting black men who have sex with men, especially gay, bisexual and trans men living with HIV. This is an area of specialist support that I work on.

Yeah, I mean personally I qualified as a lawyer and I, you know, worked for the Crown Prosecution Services for about twelve years of my life, then I went into work for the private sector for Price, Waterhouse & Coopers and I gave all of that up, you know, to go study theology and become a priest, which is really what I always wanted to do. And I’m also a poet, I have written a book of poetry and I still write and I still perform. I have won several awards for my work, you know, basically as an activist. I’m currently nominated for a Top Ten Outstanding Contribution to LGBT Life by the British LGBT Awards, so. I’m very proud of that. I also do a lot of voluntary work. I currently, in voluntary capacity, am the chairperson for the International Network of Religious Leaders Living with HIV, in Europe, and I’m also the vice-chair for One Voice Network, which is an umbrella organisation for black-led LGBT organisations in England because we want our voices to be heard, that’s why it’s called One Voice. I’ve also been involved… I’m also a trustee with Kaleidoscope Trusts which is an advocacy lobbying organisation that is thinking to change the laws against homosexuality in the Commonwealth, and actually two more voluntary works that I’m so proud of… I’m also what it is called a champion for an organisation called Africa Safeguarding Children charity. I love that charity a lot because they focus on children’s well-being and, of course, one more - and I’m sure it’s not the last, I’ll remember another one later – is Mildmay Hospital in Central London which focuses on HIV-care and treatment, so, those are my areas of work, yeah.

I think in perspective, my voluntary work is also my passion so when I’m in the voluntary space I’m pretty happy doing what I’m doing and if, you know, the outcome is always joyful and celebratory. I mean, I’m not saying that some of them are not difficult, yes, it can be work. I mean a good example is the Network of Religious Leaders Living with HIV. It’s still a challenge in Europe that religious leaders living with HIV don’t show up, so… I’m working with people in Sweden and in other places that… I don’t know that many in the UK so we’ll see how it goes, yeah. Maybe we’ll press and get people to be more involved and… It doesn’t really have to be religious leaders living with HIV they could be, you know, allies as well, which I think is important. But I think that visibility of religious leaders with HIV is, is, it breaks down barriers. That would be great. I don’t know any Black African or Black Caribbean priest who is HIV-positive. I don’t know any. So, today in 2021 I think I’m standing alone and standing graciously and with great humility. So… I don’t know anyone. I’m really really trying to think. I mean, if anyone is listening to this podcast and knows somebody please make an introduction, ‘cause we got work to do.

When I think of home… Wow. For me as a Black person ‘home’ means so many things. Well, actually, home means so many things to me as a Black African, a Nigerian, and also a Black British. I think as a British, I mean, my home is my castle, so they say, and it is true. I am very very particular around my home. I like my home to be welcoming and I’m also someone that loves to welcome people in my home. I mean, I give you a quick example. For example, you know, I mean obviously I am living in a rented home at the moment so if I have my own personal home it would have smaller settees. One of these chairs would be a seater-bed because I am always preparing for a sleepover or to be able to make sure that someone who stays is comfortable. Home is where I find comfort, is where I get away from everything. And as a Nigerian, as an African, you know, even though I was born and now live in England, Nigeria is still home, where I always think about going home to Nigeria. But of course, you know, I’ve had a very different journey in life, even though I recognise both England and Nigeria as my home I still feel excluded and ostracised from my homeland in Nigeria, because of the homophobic laws and because of the fear of even stigmatising me with my HIV status, the fact that I won’t get the higher standard of care in in the health service in Nigeria does worry me. It would have worried me regardless of the fact that I am living with HIV, it really doesn’t matter, every other illnesses or health incidents, you know, could be just as traumatic, let alone someone living with HIV that you have to be in constant communication or relationship with the medical team.

So, home for me is sanctuary where you find comfort. As a person of faith, as a Christian, I also see the Church as my home. But it’s rather unfortunate that I now feel uncomfortable to call the Church my home, because I have experienced homophobia by er… I have experienced homophobia, xenophobia, racism, HIV stigmatisation within the Church setting. I have experienced rejection. I have been kicked out, you know, at Church, so I don’t know if I can be comfortable to call it home. But then, of course, you know, when I then come to my own personal home… This is where I find joy, this is where I find a lot of peace. I don’t have any restrictions in my home. I actually do feel free at home. You know, the other thing again is in all honesty I’m actually a naturist so when I’m at home I just feel free to be myself, you know, without the inhibition of clothing and things like that and make sure that the temperature is right in my home. When the bill comes we pay the bill because I know that I felt comfortable. And the reality is, you know, that before the pandemic I travelled a lot and when I meet with people and other colleagues on the journey they’re always talking about them missing home but I’ve never actually missed home like other people miss home. When I travel, everywhere I go, I feel at home. I make home in the places that I go. I’m not a big fan of hotels so I try to look for homes, like, you know, the AirBnB is a good example, for example, where you find personal homes that are for hire. During my stay I like to stay in communities. I like to stay in retreat centre where it feels like home. I like to stay in other people’s home because I like to connect with those communities and of course when I travel as well I’m not a big fan of my British food-life fish and chips so I eat local food. As long as they’re edible and they’re delicious, I’m willing to try. And actually it came to my mind, it was Ethiopia, I’ve tried Ethiopian food, I’ve tried Ugandan food, yeah… Some foods are bland and some are great but it is what it is. I mean, not to try would defeat the entire purpose. It’s always good to try. Yeah, I mean, I think, when it comes to food, my goodness me, I enjoyed the food in Côte d’Ivoire. I enjoy the food in Côte d’Ivoire so I found home in Côte d’Ivoire as well. But I ate in Liberia and felt sick, so, well, goodness me, I had food-poisoning in Liberia, so, which wasn’t great. But, you know, coming to the question of home, you know, even though I’ve travelled extensively, I still like, you know, the sense of home I get when I travel. So I, actually, I don’t know, I’d like to know there are other people but I feel that when I leave my home in London and I travel everywhere I don’t actually look back to say: “I’m missing my home in London,” no. When I’m on that journey, I’m home. But nonetheless, the comfort of my home is very very important, so that I feel comfortable and not vulnerable in my own space.

To make the home-away-from-home feel at home, I think it’s just me being there, me in my person being there and, you know. One of the last trips I had before the lockdown, I went to Portugal for the first time and I remember walking around and felt totally at home. It’s a different culture, a different language, but I felt at home, you know? I found a restaurant that sells local food and, you know, I enjoyed it and I just made it my own and, you know, I’m always waving to strangers and saying hello like I’m the mayor of the town, so I think that for me it’s also the people and a good example is when I visited Lesotho, Botswana and South Africa just to name a few, where I’ve already got to know people. So, it meant for me in that particular scenario that I make home. Actually a good example – and I don’t want to sound like I’m so arrogant about this – it was Eswatini. Before going to Eswatini I’d already made friends in Eswatini and I said: “Look, I’m actually coming to your country because I want to visit it for a few days, you know, can I stay by your place?” And I stayed in a friend’s home. They were actually students, which makes it even more fun. So they had residence on the campus and they also had a home in, like a house in Este, so I stayed in their home and it was very very meagre, very simple, basic and that was okay, so. I’m not a big fan of luxury, super-star hotels… Maybe if I was in a very dangerous country that would have been necessary but when I travel I really try and blend with local people, I try to do things the local way and I think for me the advantage – and this is actually a privilege as a black person – around Africa you will not stand out until you speak, seriously.

But if you stay in hotels it’s very quick for them to work out that you’re a foreigner. The other thing that makes me feel comfortable and maybe at home in places, I also jump on public transports. When I am abroad I actually do not have the innocence of fear. I probably have more fear in London, you know, than when I’m abroad because I mean, we take care of myself. I’m not saying I have no experience of any kind of danger or trauma abroad, which I’m just grateful to God for that, but I try to do my best to feel at home so I don’t feel like an outsider. And I do hang around with local people, I really do. Just as I’m talking I’m just remembering many places where, I mean, after a conference I’ll hang out with local people, we probably walk down the road to go to the local food place, you know, the street food place to go and get dinner, you know. Rather than being served in a five-star or three-star hotel, I mean it’s like, you know, and yeah… I do make, I do love to make communities, be part of communities when I’m outside of my home.

My HIV-diagnosis really changed the perceptive of home. I think that I became, you know, I became more sensitive about who came to my home. I… I was very worried and concerned… I mean that was a time where I had serious personal internalised stigmatisation. So, I was very worried to be quite honest. I mean, at the time I wouldn’t visit people, I wouldn’t let anyone visit me. I kind of isolated myself but that didn’t last for long because, again, my home also became private, sacred, because, um, yeah… I mean, I did remember in the early days of my treatment that I used to hide my medication. I don’t anymore, so, you know, if you walk into my bathroom and you find my medication, you got questions: let’s talk. And I think that, you know, my home, I think it took me, because I was on my journey with HIV, it took me about six years before I really got comfortable, you know, talking about living with HIV. In very rare occasions, I will only share my HIV-status with people that I’m having a sexual relationship with and I will share it with them before anything happens because sometimes it’s maybe I don’t really fancy them anymore I just want to get rid of them or to be quite honest it’s never actually to get them to go, because most of them are quite reasonable. But of course, I mean, if I really really like you then I will tell you because I just want you to be informed. And even at that stage was the time before this amazing ‘undetectable equals untransmittable’ because then we don’t have that information, so for people like myself that have been living with HIV for eighteen years, you know, probably in the first two years of our medication we were already undetectable but the scientists haven’t come to that conclusion, they haven’t done that research up to that point, so we still carried a lot of stigma, so...

My home, you know, was a place of safety. Because when I’m at home then I can be all that I am, including my HIV-status. I don’t have to apologise to myself when I look at myself in the mirror. And I don’t have to explain to myself. But, outside of home, when you’re engaging with people or interacting or even when you hear a conversation that is about HIV stigmatisation you don’t get involved with it, because you might not be able to justify why you’re so defensive. I don’t think I got to that point where I was either bold or courageous to address those issues, but that has all changed now. You dare not say anything about people living with HIV in a rude way or a stigmatising way. I will challenge you right there on the spot and I’ll make a big deal.

Positive reactions… Goodness me, there are so many over the years. Do you know… I mean, the very first one was on the very same day that I was diagnosed with HIV. It was the second call I made. The first call… The second call I made to a friend, the first call was not a good one. The second call was because I just needed to tell somebody and I was on the phone for less than five minutes when I told my friend that I had an HIV-positive result and they came over to my home and picked me up and took me back to their own home. They had a one-bedroom flat as well, so, I mean, they allowed to me stay in the room… Actually, around the whole flat for me and they made me a meal but I’d lost my appetite because I was just in the clouds and thinking about what had just happened. They made me very comfortable. That to me is a positive outcome, I think it’s one of those moments that actually enabled me to, you know, to continue to find strength, so… But I think that, you know, more so, more positive outcome is the more I share my story the more people get in touch with me to say they need support and that is very encouraging, I find that very supportive. And you know, you know, some of the relationships that I’ve had since I’ve been HIV-positive has also been positive because I’ve never felt discriminated against.

I think another very clear positive outcome is that, I’ve been positive for over eighteen years now and I did disclose publicly and as someone who is a priest in public office who is also a very popular gay-rights activist I felt a responsibility for me to be more visible around my HIV-status. So it was actually World AIDS Day of 2018 that I decided to make a post on my social media platform: Instagram, Facebook, I believe on Twitter, you know, that I posted quite detailed message about living with HIV. And I remember when I posted it I went to bed thinking that the whole ground will open up the next day and I will be swallowed up but for me that action that I took, that courage, bravery, bravado, everything that you can think that I did, I thought this was going to kill me because I haven’t shared my HIV-status personally with my family, you know, personally with the Church, personally with other people but I felt that in that moment I needed to put this on the record. And I remember waking up the next day and just reading all the comments. The comments were 100% positive. Now, what got me thinking is that every time I make a post or there is a post about me being gay and a Christian, I get hate mails, I get, you know, private messages of condemnation that I’m going to hell, but I think I can safely say that when I shared my HIV-status I did not get any sort of hate messages. They were 100% messages of compassion and ‘well done Jide, congratulations, this will mean a lot to other people.’ And I think that that is increasinly positive, but I’m still bothered, I’m still concerned, that my sexuality, you know, gets more condemnation than my HIV-status, so… I mean, if I was to flip the coin is that for those that have said ‘being HIV-positive is a punishment for being gay,’ I think that the further I got 100% compassion actually reversed that. So, people are quite ready and willing to condemn me for who I am but have compassion, you know, with me living with a virus.

I mean I’ve seen it a lot with the work that I do. I’ve had a lot of gay men who are HIV-positive that I support who tells me that their family are aware that they’re HIV-positive but they don’t know if they can deal with the fact that they’re gay. And you know, so, I mean gay people are HIV-positive like other people and people around them know that they’re HIV-positive… I think that the problem is always when families know that you’re gay and then you’re HIV-positive. I think the gay person who becomes HIV-positive is now worried that: ‘Oh my god, my family hate me for being gay and now I’m HIV-positive is this just going to get worse because they’re going to realise that ‘know we know that God is punishing you,’ but with the reverse, where families know that you’re HIV-positive and they don’t know that you’re gay you still have, you know, some journey to make with them without the condemnation and… It is interesting. I think that’s an area that I will probably look into and maybe talk a little bit more about, about the hypocritical nature of it and I think that, yes. Even for gay people, for myself as well as a gay man, you know, I think I contracted the HIV virus about eight or nine years after I came out as gay and even at the time that I was infected with HIV I also in that moment internalised the fact that: ‘okay, this is God’s punishment.’ But, as a queer Christian theologian who is always having questions and who I have a very good relationship with God and I prayed about this and I studied more, I, you know… I had mentors who were HIV-positive and priests long before me so they were already in the sector so they know what they’re doing, I was within them, I was within their circle and I learnt a lot more and that’s how I became, you know, the chairperson for the Network of Religious Leaders Living with HIV. Because of the courage to speak out and speak truth about what is life, you know, yeah… I think that knowledge is definitely important, you know, as we talk about HIV and sexual health. In the absence of that knowledge we will make judgements and we will make mistakes.

I think the negative experiences were… No, it’s okay just, let me explain this – [MG: No-one is peeing in the background?] No, we’ve got these fridges installed, so… You know like if you have like a fridge that stands on its own? You know, it’s built so that the water will drain automatically. This one is actually built behind so I believe that all the fridges in this building goes all the way up so when all of them are shedding the water, it goes behind in some parts. And I think that the builders should have made it like insulate so that it’s less noisy. I mean I am actually used to it but every time I have people here, so: ‘what’s that?’ It’s getting, it’s getting flooded. Yeah, um. The negativity that I have experienced with HIV has come from unlikely sources and for me it’s always unfortunate that the two incidences that I have experienced is actually from the Church. When a priest was telling me that: “Oh, you’re HIV-positive, we don’t know how to handle that here and, you know, people might not want to take communion from you.” I think that my reaction was, you know, to educate them, instantly and I think I remember, you know, purchasing a book about ‘Who Cares About HIV’. I said: “Read this book.” But I mean, I mean, the person involved I didn’t think read the book because they didn’t come back to discuss it. I think we just left it there. The second incident was actually at a conference when, you know, there was this conversation about gay people who are HIV-positive and how the Church has treated them and there was a Christian pastor who was in the audience who stood up to ask a question: “Where are the gays that are HIV-positive? They should stand up and let us see them.” And I really wanted to stand up to respond but my colleague pinned me down and said: “You know, Jide, this is not the time.” And I think that it’s rather unfortunate because the language that you put out there to condemn people who are HIV is going to keep them away from you. And I think that when you put a positive message out about the care and understanding and the offer of pastoral support then people will come to you. Not when you put out bad energy, people are not going to come to you. You know, the other negative reaction actually happened here in London, you know… I’d been to an event and again, you know, this conversation, this was all before lockdown… I went to an event, you know, with the gay community with celebrating and there was a cute guy there and we got chatting and we exchanged phone numbers and then, I think about a few days later, I was in town and I was chatting with him and then I think we kinda agreed that we would meet up, so he already gave me his address that I should travel to this location blah blah blah to meet up with him and, I think, before I went further I said to him: “I’m HIV-positive, you know, would that be okay?” and he immediately cancelled, you know, our meet-up. And I think in that moment, I think I took it graciously. What concerned me was that this person also works for the National Health Service as a nurse and it really bothered me a lot. But I mean, I didn’t do anything about it because one, I didn’t want to cost him his job, it was a personal situation. I was hoping we would go on a date, and that happened and I felt rejected. I didn’t feel totally angry but if that situation had been that he was my nurse treating me then I would make a big deal out of it.

Actually, now that I’ve shared a personal circumstance let me also share a professional circumstance. … In which I experienced HIV stigmatisation. I think it was December 2018. I had a terrible toothache and I needed to have it addressed and taken out and, you know, obviously my dentists were too busy and they kept on postponing it and I was getting increasingly in pain. Now, King’s College Hospital, is it? King’s College.. Yeah, King’s College in Denmark Hill – have I got that right? - they have an emergency walk-in clinic. So, you have to go there very early in the morning to queue up. So I was there pretty early, queued up and then I think I was the fourth person on the queue. I got in, and you know, and got enrolled and, you know, I was met, obviously it took me a long time before I could get treatment, I was there at 4am I think they opened at 6 o’clock or so. I didn’t get to the treatment point until about 11 o’clock, so I was really in pain and this was after I, you know, I really made a big deal about I need to be seen but what I realised is that, you know, they actually gave me an appointment for another day and I said: “No, this is an emergency that’s why I came here.” So when they went to treat me they said I asked too many questions because they were already notified on my form that I was HIV-positive so they wanted to speak to my HIV-consultant, they needed some more reports. I said: “I’m here for my toothache and, you know, my HIV-positive, I’m undetectable,” I was telling them all of this. They wanted to know what is my viral load, what’s my CD4 count, and they need some report from my consultant before they can carry on. And I really really made a big deal. I think there was one of the dentists in the practice who intervened and they actually, you know, put me on the list of people to be treated. So when I go into the treatment room I was really really surprised that the dentist and the nurse that were going to do the operation. We were talking about my HIV-status quite openly within his presence and the dentist must have said “He’s HIV-positive” about a dozen times within the space of a few seconds and I was pretty angry and nervous, you know, and then they came, you know, to do the extraction almost as if they were going to treat Ebola. And this is London and I felt so humiliated in that moment. I did report this, you know, to the Southwark Health Watch. I don’t know what came out of it, but I have talked about it many times, so I’m sure somebody knows this story. So those are the times and I think, you know, when I think about the HIV negative situation within the framework of the health service and within the Church, these are the two places I least expect any form of HIV stigmatisation, it is just… It is not the right place. So if the communities and societies in my opinion can be more compassionate, why not the professionals? I mean, I still advocate that NHS staff at every level should be educated around HIV and also every priest-in-training should be educated about HIV. I, particularly priests, well, all of them, but I still feel that no priests in this century will leave a Church and not have a member in their parish – I’m not saying in their congregation, even in their congregation, that is not HIV-positive. There are 40 million people living with HIV around the world and there is no corner of the world that is exempted. Even if you live in a village or in a county with ten people, there’s, there’s a chance that somebody is HIV-positive, neighbour. So let’s not live in a world where we are continuously ignorant.

I felt excluded from places that could have been home or that are considered home and that is also, it is also places where, you know, peer support takes place. When I was diagnosed with HIV there were rarely or even any peer support communities for black, gay men. Even when I was diagnosed with HIV I still felt like I was the only black, gay man who was HIV-positive and when you go to services you don’t find other gay men because I’m thinking: ‘Goodness me, what’s going on?’ But I think that, you know, it took, this took me six years because, you know, I was also on different journeys, you know, I was pursuing my career, you know, as a Christian minister. I mean my HIV-status, excuse me, my HIV-status triggered so many things for me, you know, it was also the time I went into training for ministry then I went back to Nigeria to start the House of Rainbow Ministry and so I was literally train myself in a very different direction rather than, you know, focus on being HIV-positive and, I don’t know, I think that because I went on to pursue my career, you know, I think in a way it did not allow me to get to a place where I will have an increase mental health crisis because I was focusing on career, I was focusing on activism, I didn’t have time to even take care of myself. And I remember in those three years between, actually up to six years I would say, between 2003 and 2009. You understand me, I really lost weight. Even though at some point I was on medication, my diet changed because I couldn’t keep my food down, so quite often I’d be sick, sometimes I’d have diarrhoea. I literally had to change my diet altogether. I think there was a time that I was probably a vegan, because I couldn’t eat meat, I couldn’t eat fish, I couldn’t eat chilli, you know, everything, nothing would agree with me but I just knew ‘I’m still alive.’ And sometimes when I look at pictures in those times I really do look sick, but I was very courageous, just to carry on with life, as if nothing else was happening.

I think when I, I mean after my work in Nigeria changed because, I mean, in Nigeria we were called the ‘gay church’, so when we were exposed the government came after us, the communities came after us, so I was advised to leave the country. So, when I returned to England, you know, I was very depressed for about almost two years and it was in 20- 2009 that I now discovered a group, a peer support group for newly-diagnosed with HIV. I think the programme went on for about six weeks with the same cohort of people. That was the first time that I got the support that I needed. And even in that space I still didn’t feel included because there weren’t many black people in that space. I think there were two of us and I can’t remember how many… Maybe a dozen or more. But again – and when I think a lot more about the activities that I’m creating within the House of Rainbow communities – I’m creating space for black, men who have sex with men, who are HIV-positive. So, I mean, this pack here – I’m just referring to this, is a programme that’s taking place tomorrow. So, it’s an outdoor programme because of COVID restriction, where you know up to about ten, you know, black, self-identified gay, bisexual, trans men living with HIV will come together, you know, for peer support and of course in this bag I’ve got several things, you know, it’s a goody-bag so I’ve got ex-folio masks, I’ve got you know peels, you know, all the information, sanitiser, face mask, you know, all of those things, you know, that’s to say ‘well done guys for what you’re doing’. And I think for me it’s really important. I mean, it’s also creating those spaces that is applicable to culture and traditionally appropriateness. You know, I think the other spaces are great but as a black person you will feel lost in a space where it’s occupied by white people. And it’s not to say your services are irrelevant but they just don’t speak, you know, confidently and that is why a lot of black people don’t return back to services, but when you create something like we’re creating the House of Rainbow it’s very holistic, you know, so… Yep. And I’m very proud of that because it’s a game-changer in itself.

HIV affected the majority of close relationships in my life and I’m not talking with lovers, I’m talking friends and family, yes. And I’m also talking, maybe with… Actually I mean there was a friend of mine, very good friend of mine, we’ve been friends for over two decades now, you know, and the way I came out to him about my HIV-status was very funny, yeah. I had been probably HIV-positive for… When did I come out to him? I’d been HIV-positive, goodness me… Probably ten years, yeah. More than ten years, yeah before I told him. And he’s always been my friend but I’d just never told him. And I think the question that I asked him is, you know: “What is the Church doing about people living with HIV?” And he just asked the question: “Are you HIV-positive?” He didn’t give me the answer to the question that I’d asked him. Then I said: “Yes.” His response was one of the best response and I wish I’d a done it ten years earlier, you know. He just reached out and hugged me and he goes: “This is not a conversation. There’s no conversation to be had.” And he still loved me just the way he did the first time he got to know me and I think that to me is very important. But it did affect other relationships, yes. The relationship with my own family – and let me quantify that – my DNA family, I did not discuss my HIV-status with anyone in my family, but I believe now they know because I put it all on social media and it didn’t bother me because… Part of the reason I kept it quiet and private for so long is because I was concerned for them, but because they were also very homophobic towards me, I say: “This is the people I’m trying to protect? They don’t even have any care for me.” So I went ahead and , you know, shared my HIV-status to those who it is important to. If it is important to my family then we can have that conversation later, but we still haven’t had that conversation and it’s because we don’t have a relationship. Who else would it have impacted? I mean, when I came out with my HIV-status I was not in any formal employment elsewhere, I already was working for myself and I was creating House of Rainbow so I didn’t have to, you know, come out to an employee or my employers, anything like that so I had a very clear, you know, stream of water to navigate without any more challenges. Erm, yeah, who else? I mean, my family of choice, again I, like I’ve said DNA family, family of choice, the people who have given me family, you know, I think I had conversations with them, not in an early stage. I think I had conversations with them either around about the time when I put it on social media or shortly before then. There was not a single backlash at all. They all embraced me and continued to love me to this day. So… I think to those who matters it makes no difference. If it’s a problem for somebody they probably just avoid me. But I’m not going anywhere so now I continue to do the work that I do, to continue to support others, yeah… I mean, what I really really enjoy now is when people hear my story and then contact me and through my work at House of Rainbow and they say: “Jide, I’m HIV-positive, what do I do, you know? How do I navigate life?”

And I have many positive things to say to people, you know? HIV-positive does not change anything at all. It doesn’t. And you don’t have to disclose. But I’m also mindful that people live in hostile countries, they live in hostile environments, even their own home could be hostile whether it be here in England or anywhere in the world. But the reality, like I was saying earlier on is that, for those that are gay being HIV-positive just makes things more complicated with their sexuality, especially if they’re not being accepted at home or they live in countries where it’s still being criminalised. So I can understand that but HIV itself is not a problem, it’s the society, you know, that is full of stigma, shame, denial and discrimination that really makes it a big issue. Disclosure is not compulsory. But I would say, of course, I mean if you’re falling in love again with someone and you’re going to have sex with them it is obligatory that you actually have that conversation with them. If they run from you they’re never interested, they don’t love you. They’re not capable. So don’t feel judged, don’t feel pity, just be grateful that they ain’t hanging around. I mean, the other thing again is that, I think that, you know, by virtue of me being open about my HIV-status then I’ve also helped a lot of people by being open, you know, reduce or change their thoughts of suicide, because there’s a lot of suicidal thoughts when people are HIV-positive, “Oh, Jide, I want to kill myself,” I’m not telling them that, you know, your life is, the only thing that’s changed is your HIV-status, nothing else has changed. You can still be that medical doctor you want to be, you can still be a pilot, you can still have all those jobs that you’re dreaming of. Don’t stop, you know. Don’t let this get you down. The people who are going to stigmatise you truly and honestly really don’t care, they don’t care for you. HIV is just an excuse they are going to use, to continue the irrelevance in your life, so don’t let that stop you. The other thing, again, is that on a logical level I always say to people that, you know, being HIV-positive is not a punishment for your sexuality. It’s not a punishment because you’re sexuality active. It’s not, you know.

I’ve always shared this example of, let’s just assume, two girls and they’re twins and, well: two girls. I just say two girls and both of them are sexually active and – this is not anything against women, but – let me just say two people, two people that are sexually active, maybe it’s from the same family, one got pregnant and the other one got HIV and the reason I always use female is because of the pregnancy, and… So, one got pregnant and one got HIV. I’m sure in any family in anywhere in the world those two young people would definitely have a lot of answering to do. Somebody’s going to do all the talking, especially the mother or the father, or the elders in the community are going to say: “You’re wrong for having sex, now you’re pregnant, what are you going to do with a baby, blah blah blah?” but the reality of it is that in nine months of that pregnancy a child is going to be born and they are going to celebrate that they have a grandchild. Now how about the person who is HIV-positive? How are we treating them? The fact that is that, you know, whatever you do negatively it’s going to impact on their mental health. They’re probably going to suffer post-traumatic, you know, trauma, you know… All of those things need to be avoided because they’re both sexually active and even the one who’s pregnant could have been HIV-positive, the one who’s HIV-positive could have been pregnant but I think that the reality is that we have to have a sensitive way of approaching these matters. And for me, as someone who’s HIV-positive, I would rather that, you know, we have a much more sensible conversation and approach about how we deal with all these matters because sexual activities have consequences whether it be pregnancies or STIs. If you’re sexually active something’s going to happen. Unless you are… You know, you have all the knowledge or you’re taking precautions and, you know, it’s not like being OCD about it, you know, you can’t be OCD around sex, you know. It’s either you’re in it for the fun or you’re clinical about it. You can’t be over-clinical about sex you’re just like: “I’m going to clean everything before I dive into anything.” It doesn’t work like that. And I think it’s really about the knowledge and the information that really really matters. And talking about knowledge and information, I have done a lot of work around, you know, information about sexual health and I always talk about three categories of people that we should always look out for… Okay. The first category of people includes me: people who are HIV-positive and who are on their medication and are, you know, on effective medication.

So we really just need to take our drugs. I would say to people who are HIV-positive on their medication that: “Every time that you take your tablets, don’t stigmatise yourself, in fact: praise yourself. Praise yourself and say I’m a champion, because I’m saving the world.” Every time you take a tablet you are saving the world because you are not going to pass HIV onto somebody else. It is impossible. Every time you take your tablet it’s not really about you, it’s about other people that you are saving because whoever you are having sex with, man or woman, you are not going to pass on the virus. So let’s get that right, okay? Now, of course, the second group of people are those who also have information, okay? They have information about sexual health, HIV prevention, STI prevention, so they, they have information about how to use condoms, you know, how to have safer sex and maybe they’ve also considered PREP, and they’re also on PREP, PREP meaning ‘pre-exposure prophylaxis’ so and they carry on about their lives. So those group of people will not be threatened by those who are HIV-positive because if you are using condom you cannot get HIV from the person who’s HIV-positive and if you’re not having sex with condom, even if you’re not on PREP, with somebody who is HIV-positive and on effective medication you cannot get HIV. Now, if you’re on PREP because you’re not sure about your sexual partner’s STI or HIV-status, you are also helping prevent the spread of HIV or the possibility of catching HIV. Kudos on you.

So these are two groups of people that are absolute champions. Now, the third group are those who are completely untested, don’t want to have this conversation and totally ignorant and is ready to stigmatise anybody and who ask ridiculous questions like ‘are you clean?’ and ‘are you safe?’. These are the ones that really annoy me. Now, this group of people are the most dangerous people in any way you can think about it because they don’t have the knowledge, they’ve not tested, you know, and they ask silly questions and, you know, they avoid having sensible conversations about HIV or sexual health itself. These are the people to look out for, to be quite honest. I mean, if you’re going to have a sexual relationship with me and you’re still asking me if I’m clean, are you, have you – ask yourself, or have you actually done any tests? At least in the last three months. Minimum. Yep, so… And I think that for me that’s really important. And we can do a lot more to, you know, bring HIV to zero. I mean, if everyone that is sexually active tests for HIV in a day we would eradicate HIV like that [clicks fingers]. And for me that is really key message, so, and the reason that I really like the message around PREP and even PEP and even U=U because it actually removes the burden from people who are HIV-positive because we don’t have to answer those questions, we don’t have to explain why we’re HIV-positive, you know. I mean, if I wanna have sex with somebody I don’t even have to talk about my HIV-status but, you know, have they taken all the precautions themselves? Have they taken PREP? Are they prepared to use condoms and things like that? All those things need to be there otherwise we’ll be going around in circles. Over and over again. And for me in this day, in time, I feel very optimistic that people living with HIV can and will have our lives back. We will not be subject of discussion and debates because everybody else needs to take responsibility, as well.

I’m actually part of several communities that supports people living with HIV. I’ve created my own community as well of people living with HIV as well, I’ll start with them. This is a peer support for black men who are, er, men who have sex with men who identify as gay, bisexual and trans men, you know, who are HIV-positive. It’s a fabulous community. And a good example of that community, and we do things that are legal and safe and everything, but we also do things that are unconventional. And I’ll give you a quick example, I mean it’s nothing out of the ordinary. There was one weekend which was a bank holiday weekend and I personally had just realised that I’d ran out of my ARV tablets. So, and I was contacting the clinic frantically to see if I could get an emergency supply and I was thinking ‘Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday,’ that’s four days I’m going to miss my drugs, so I contacted people within my peer community to say: “Can anyone spare, you know, these tablets, I’m using the one, a similar tablet.” I mean, there were three people who responded, you know, and it was just one bus ride from my home for me to collect seven tablets that would tide me over, you know, until I get back to the clinic. That is what peer support community is also part of. Peer support community’s also part of having this conversation because someone who’s HIV-positive who’s black and gay is more likely to feel comfortable to talk to other people about being black and HIV-positive or in any other subject, so I created a community called ‘Accountability Partners’ within the House of Rainbow community where we paired two people together to become partners, befriend each other, you know, to limit this whole isolation and feeling like an outsider and also, more importantly, to help remind each other when they’re taking their medication. I mean I take my medication around about 8pm everyday. I get a text message from my accountability partner: ‘Have you taken your medication? Don’t forget.’ And that’s cool. And I do the same as well when it’s the time for their own medication. Now, the other group that I’m actually a part of, you know, is actually a faith-based group that supports people living with HIV, so… Soon as I became a priest, before I became a priest, I was a part of that community, they knew that I was training and since I became a priest I have been called upon several times, you know, to lead prayers, you know, to celebrate amongst them and everyone in that community know that we are HIV-positive. I think one or more people within the community passed away during COVID and again I was called upon as a priest to come and lead the programme, not just for HIV but as a community, as part of that community. And of course, you know, I’m also part of another community where I volunteer, that’s what I said earlier on, I didn’t even mention this earlier on. That’s where I’m actually a volunteer for HIV-mentoring, you know. So this is with Positive East, where I volunteer, you know, as an HIV-mentor. So I support somebody who is newly diagnosed, they match me with someone, we have a great conversation, to help them and I do that already working with the House of Rainbow.

Which other communities are there? So, unless I remember more… I think for me it’s just so important and with all of this, with all of this, there is also the importance of privacy and confidentiality. And also, I mean to me privacy and confidentiality comes second nature and it’s not surprising that six months, twelve months down the line somebody come back to me and say: “Oh, Jide, did you remember this?” And I say: “No, I don’t.” It’s simply, it’s not because I choose to forget it’s because my active mannerism of privacy and confidentiality is very important so I don’t retain information and if I do forget it’s because I’m practising that. I mean, and it’s not that I forget everything because sometimes when I’m talking like this I use examples as well and just make sure that I continue, you know, with privacy and confidentiality so that people are not easily identified or exposed, but it’s almost important… But I’m part of various communities that has been a great strength to me. I’m also part of the community of Religious Leaders Living with HIV, not just in Europe but on a global basis, so…

My home is my safe space. And… I mean, before the lockdown yes, there are safe space within the communities, there’s safe space, you know, at House of Rainbow where, you know, we come together I think weekly or every fortnight. Just creating space, I mean space around food, around the communities and sometimes when I watch people in the safe space especially if they’re coming for the first time, they’re always a little bit apprehensive, they’re always quiet but when you watch them halfway through the programme and the end of the programme everybody’s really full and you know quite happy and to for me is also creating those safe spaces. And also, safe space mentally, emotionally, psychologically. My safe space is also when I go for walks. I do like the, what do you call it? Solitary space, you know, and I prefer, now that the weather’s getting better, I always prefer early in the morning, something like 6, 6:30, when it’s still quiet, you know. There’s less people and less rush, you know? I create my safe space in that time. Yeah, so. Yeah, I mean, before the lockdown like I said, there are communities where, you know, I do participate and, you know, we do meet up, yeah… Yeah, there’s quite a few. But again, I don’t necessarily just binge, but strategically I’ll go to those places because it fills me up, it really strengthens me. Yep.

I would describe myself as the ‘happy, holy, homosexual.’ And you know someone reminded me of that this week and I’m not always happy all the time. But, you know, I remain very positive that I’m deserving of happiness and I am the creator and the author of my own happiness. I do not expect anyone to make me happy. I expect myself to make myself happy. And, you know, it’s not that I don’t have problems or issues that bring me down but even within those ones, you know, I’m always thinking of how quickly I will get back to my feet and what are the solutions but at the same time I try to look for happiness. And if anything has tested humanity, it is actually the pandemic. And in the pandemic I’m so grateful that the question of home became poignant because three months between July and October I was homeless. So, I’m sitting here talking about my home. The space that I called home for about six or seven years became hostile to the point that I was asked to leave. I was ejected because I didn’t have the security of a tenancy it made it difficult for me to fight, even with the protective laws that, you know, landlord cannot kick you out, and the coronavirus they need to give you three months and I didn’t get all of those because I was considered a lodger then one minute I was considered a trespasser, so… And I didn’t have the energy or I didn’t want to carry extra burden of fighting with this person, so, I moved, you know? I moved a lot of my properties into my office and I then went to find a home where I can pay just to sleep. And, you know, it was really difficult even though I was able to get support. So now that we’re talking about safe spaces I cannot over-emphasise how much I feel safe in my own home. And then I’m looking forward to even create a, you know, a sustainable home, somewhere that I won’t have to worry about being kicked out or being forced out, you know? I mean, I’m renting! Which is great, I can afford to rent, but I think my hope is maybe get social housing or, or buy. So, you know, that safety net needs to be there. At some point.

You know, most stories of people living with HIV often begins with a great, a great, a big great cloud. The fear of ‘what do I do, will I sustain this?’ The trauma of the news itself. And I know that things are changing because of course, you know, there are people that are HIV-positive and it’s just: “Okay, I’ll just take a tablet a day, yeah, and get on with my life.” It’s not always that easy for many people, in fact the majority of the people that get an HIV-diagnosis feel traumatised. And for me my hope is that people will be able to move, you know, very quickly from that place of trauma to a place of hope and just continue with their journey. And now I wanna make it clear: HIV is not a crime. HIV is not a sin and you can achieve all of your goals even with an HIV-status. You can become who you want to become and don’t let, you know, the external challenges and forces hold you back. And disclosure’s not necessary. I mean, I do, I’ve said to people: “Look, if you feel uncomfortable having your medication in its original bottle, buy yourself, you know, vitamin bottles and just swap it. And it’s okay. Your HIV tablet is just like vitamins, it’s going to keep you healthy, it’ll keep you safe. And you’re going to carry on with your life, you know. And even the question around diet, or do I change my food? And I said: “No, don’t change your food but eat more things that are more healthy for you.” More fibres, more fruit, more vegetables, just eat more of those things. Don’t change your food. Especially people from different cultures, you know, “Oh, I can’t eat that anymore because I’m HIV-positive.” And some people even when they get little rashes, it’s like: “No, not everything that happens to you now is HIV-related so, you know…” You can still get other rashes, you can still get other illnesses, so it’s completely unrelated so slow down. For me it’s just to make… I was going to say to make HIV sexy, maybe we should own that. Yeah, I think we can make HIV sexy, we can make HIV more inclusive, we can make it more acceptable, we can make it something that we can talk about and it’s okay. If I introduce myself to you and say: “I’m Jide Macaulay and I’m HIV-positive,” I think it should be celebrated, not, not… Ostracise me and make me feel shame, no. I mean, I’ve done that before, that’s worse. I did it to a total stranger.

Actually that’s a good one for a positive outcome! We’re friends today. It’s so funny right, I mean... It was on an aeroplane, I mean goodness me talk about travelling a lot in this conversation! It was on a plane, it was coming back from South Africa to London and it was a direct flight and, you know, I was sitting on one of those seats where there are four seats, so there’s I believe a mother and a child in two seats and the seat next to me was empty and you know… The plane was filling up and it was close to where you think the doors are going to close and I’m thinking: ‘Oh! I’ve got a spare seat next to me so I get to spread out.’ And then this guy showed up and said that’s his seat. So he sat down and he had his headset on and he was listening to music. So, we had little introduction at that point and then he, when the flight, I think we’ve now taken off and then we started talking to each other, almost as if we knew each other, and he started asking: “So, what brought you to South Africa?” I said: “Well, I came for a meeting for Religious Leaders Living with HIV, I’m HIV-positive blah blah blah” in that one line and he just look at me like: ‘That’s too much information, did you have to tell me that much?’ So he went back to listen to his music. And then I remember, he came, he took off his headset again and he said: “Oh, can you listen to this music?” I’d already told him I was Nigerian. So he said: “Can you listen to this music and see what it’s saying?” So he was listening to Fela, which is a popular Nigerian artist and so we started talking about Fela’s song and then things started falling into place. And it was surprisingly, because it was a long flight actually before we both decided we needed to sleep, then he told me his own story that he was actually flying out of South Africa, that he’s going on a cruise liner from Southampton and he’s chef, he’s a pastry chef. So, we got so interested in the conversation and then he now told me his own story where he was eighteen years old, or seventeen, yeah, he was eighteen years old, just come of eighteen years old, or seventeen, eighteen years old and he’d actually had sex with one of his classmates. Now, of course in his country, actually in South Africa, in South Africa it was considered underage so he was actually charged for rape, statutory rape, even though there was consent between him and the girl. And then he was actually in jail for four years without trial. So the case went forwards and backwards and he was never convicted and then he was finally released because the girl refused to go to the trial. And then it was while he was in prison that he learnt how to, he became a pastry chef. So he said to me that when I told him that I was HIV-positive for example, he was just wow, there are so many stories in this world blah blah blah and he decided to share his own story. Even though we were still trying to find where the common ground is I still felt, the fact that I felt so comfortable sharing with him something that people still consider private, so he then shared with me. And by the time we’d got to London we became friends and we are actually still friends today, seriously. I mean, we’ve not seen each other since then because he was on the liner and then coronavirus broke and he was in South Africa anyway, so he was actually on the liner when corona broke and then he was delayed, quite a lot, because, you know, the borders were closed and he couldn’t travel back to his own country. A lot of the money that he earned he then spent more than half of it outside his country because he was on that trip to make money for himself. I think he’s got two kids? It’s such an interesting story. I mean, he’s still friends with his, the mother of his kids and he’s now got a new girlfriend… Life’s so many stories. We still share stories, it’s so crazy. So that’s actually a very positive one and, yeah… Two, three years on we’re still friends. Fabulous. I mean, I really do respect him a lot and I like him a lot.

I think for me, in closing, I would like to say to people who question HIV, who, you know, call HIV punishment for immorality. Those who believe HIV that is a punishment from God, particularly to the gay community. Those who are highly ignorant and, you know, negative in their response. They should get the knowledge. That in this moment where they are discriminating and they are ostracising people living with HIV: the tide could change. And they could be the one who would need the support. And I would say to them that I will always be here to support them as well as support others. I will never judge them, I will never look down on them, but I really hope that they will not shun people, stigmatise them, discriminate against them or even deny their existence because of HIV.